Japanese loves everything Germany more than any other of those involved in WWII.
Gotta mention that it is because German had been taken as a kind of the signature "cool" language in anime media, especially to Chuunibyous, not because they actually like Facism.
Just look at all the animes with German lyrics in their songs in the last 4 years, including animes with characters trying to speak gratuitous broken German.
Gotta mention that it is because German had been taken as a kind of the signature "cool" language in anime media, especially to Chuunibyous, not because they actually like Facism.
Just look at all the animes with German lyrics in their songs in the last 4 years, including animes with characters trying to speak gratuitous broken German.
Japanese loves everything Germany more than any other of those involved in WWII.
Naturally. Germany was the only major power allied with Japan. And in reverse, Japan was the only ally of Germany in Asia. Ideology aside, you tend to like your allies more than your enemies.
Naturally. Germany was the only major power allied with Japan. And in reverse, Japan was the only ally of Germany in Asia. Ideology aside, you tend to like your allies more than your enemies.
So why am I on here purveying pictures of "enemy" warships that have been personified? Because I like warships and I like cute girls, regardless of their nationality.
My problems with Bismarck are as follows;
Wrong theater/navy entirely. Bismarck has no history with the IJN whatsoever. Adding it in feels forced and ruins the prospects of a combined Eu fleet of ship-girls down the line.
Part of what makes Kancolle work is the presumed empathy and affection crewmen had with their ships. They are referred to as female because the crew admire and want to take care of their ships. In my mind at least, this is why the girls appear as they do. The crews and the navy as a whole imbued upon them (female) spirits that manifested, akin to gods or youkai.
Only...the German navy doesn't refer to their ships as women. Everything was male or gender neutral. This is a can of worms where every ship-girl is suddenly transgender or a trap, violating the very thing that made the Ip appealing in the first place!
Steak said: Part of what makes Kancolle work is the presumed empathy and affection crewmen had with their ships. They are referred to as female because the crew admire and want to take care of their ships. In my mind at least, this is why the girls appear as they do. The crews and the navy as a whole imbued upon them (female) spirits that manifested, akin to gods or youkai.
More than 'presumed', it's a pretty well recorded phenomenon throughout the history of seafaring, with figureheads on the front of the ship, later becoming the painting of pictures on the side of the ship in modern era being considered the personified icon of the ship.
It's a Companion Cube kinda thing, not only that you have to take care of the ship and will form affections with the ships because you will eat, sleep and possibly die within and along with that ship, but given that more often than not, the people on the ship will be adult males who will not get human contact with any women for weeks, months, or even years, that can easily be the reason why ships often ended up being treated as female.
It has much less to do with any actual spiritual things. Same goes for other similar objects such as jet fighters and rifles which will be treated by its owner as a living person.
But it is worthy to point out that this principle absolutely does not apply to KanColle. Simple reason being: how many KanColle fans do you think have ever really went on a voyage with an actual ship long enough to form a bond with it? Compare that to how many people who are just attracted by the anime girls and combined with the current trend of genderswapping everything that exists, and you have your answer.
If I remember correctly, ships are referred to as male in Russian (it was that and/or according to the grammatical gender of the individual name, I think?), and in any case "verniy" is a masculine declension - feminine would be "vernaya" - and Bep's been around for 6 months or so.
But it is worthy to point out that this principle absolutely does not apply to KanColle. Simple reason being: how many KanColle fans do you think have ever really went on a voyage with an actual ship long enough to form a bond with it? Compare that to how many people who are just attracted by the anime girls and combined with the current trend of genderswapping everything that exists, and you have your answer.
I don't think the average KanColle fan doesn't have at least a passing interest in warships and naval warfare, even if they aren't history buffs exactly. Not to mention that probably part of what draws people in is the learning of the history of the ships and how it's presented in the character designs.
It has much less to do with any actual spiritual things. Same goes for other similar objects such as jet fighters and rifles which will be treated by its owner as a living person.
Crews may not have been particularly spiritual in regards to their ships, but if you have even a passing interest to things like Touhou or Discworld, the concept of a "god" being born through feelings of belief, love, or malice, mistreatment, and hatred are easily applied to the KanColle girls.
When I first caught onto the IP, I took it for granted that the girls existed as such, that they were not born from a woman, that they did not have civilian lives or childhoods prior to becoming what they are now. They are gods born from the sea and the lives and wills of their crew.
That may have been presumptuous of me, but I don't think it's a bad idea nor entirely unlikely.
I don't think the average KanColle fan doesn't have at least a passing interest in warships and naval warfare, even if they aren't history buffs exactly. Not to mention that probably part of what draws people in is the learning of the history of the ships and how it's presented in the character designs.
While I will not disagree that a good chunk of KanColle fans do have genuine interest in the histories of the ships, I still disagree since very limited amount of history actually goes into each KanColle characters underneath their facial values(design and 'personality'), and even that is still pretty shallow. They may have a 'passing' interest as you say('passing' as in shallow), but that's the best 80% of the fandom will ever care about the actual historical contents of these ships.
I'm not a fan of KanColle, but I consider myself a Fate series veteran, and trust me way more than half the people I've known never even bothered looking up the mythical heroes in Fate on Wikipedia or Google, most doesn't even really know what King Arthur does apart from pulling sword out of a rock. There may be educational value to the characters, but nevertheless in the end it isn't that educational value that turns something into a mainstream media but some other elements such as plot or characters.
The fandoms of these medias are just too big you can't expect many to be experts on the actual knowledge behind the curtains, or even take that knowledge seriously. Battleship nerds used to be a very small niche group, so I really doubt that with its current massive fandom size, KanColle fandom were actually born of that once miniscule minority group.
Besides, the Iowa class was the obvious first pick for a Foreign Ship-girl.
As much as I like the Iowa-class and want to see them implemented in the game (so long as the receive the amount of respect that they deserve), there are a couple of problems with putting them in. They're overpowered. Seriously overpowered. And I'm not speaking of the modernizations, I'm talking about the Iowa-class in WW2.
Consider this assessment of Iowa's would-be stats (Kancolle wise) compared to... well, every other battleship in the game.
Long Assessment
Firepower
At preferred engagement range of the Iowa of 35,000yds (and being the Fastest class of Capital Ship ever built, she'd control the range) she has an effective fire rate (as in, the rate that she actually sent shells out during combat) almost twice as high as the Yamato, and at that range any shell that hit would go through the Yamato's deck armor like a hot knife through butter (admittedly, the Yamato could return the favor at any range... if she could hit). Not to mention the superiority of her ballistics and Shell Quality. Her 16' Mk8 Super Heavy AP shell was almost as effective as the Yamato's 46cm at piercing armor, even if it did sacrifice DAP (Damage after Penetration) as a result (still would mess things up inside quite a bit). Let's not get started about accuracy, the Iowa is more accurate than any other unguided Artillery piece in the world, the Yamato not so much. This translates into a Firepower stat that is higher than the Nagato but slightly lower than the Yamato... and the ability to fire twice per shelling phase. - I could likely write an entire article on the effective Firepower of the Yamato vs the Iowa and why the Iowa would more oft than not beat the living daylights out of the Yamato, but I'll refrain.
Anti-Air
Her AA Armament (including her secondary 5in cannons) was outright overpowered, throwing 4 times as much AA lead downrange as the Musashi ever could and almost twice what the Yamato could throw in her last stand. In fact, her class had the highest AA throw weight of any single ship class in the war. Now add to this that much of the Iowa's AA Armament was Radar-controlled (including the 40mm Bofors) and had the ridiculously overpowered VT fused rounds to fall back on. On top of all of this, let's make the AA situation even worse. She could fire on Aircraft with her 16in guns using the Mark 13/14 HC Anti-Air shell... which also came with a VT fuse... This translates into an AA stat of about 150... and this is in her base form, it gets worse at Kai. (Shudder at Kai Ni people, shudder.)
Endurance/HP
Structurally, she was about 110% stronger than Yamato due to the extensive use of STS (basically RHA) in place of Mild Steel... as in, there was only a few thousand pounds of mild steel used in her construction. Also coming into consideration is her counter-flooding and damage control teams... I don't think I have to explain the difference between Japanese and American capabilities on these during WW2. Let's just say, that on the former, the American set up was a little better in effect and purely amazing considering that they did it in a lot less space; as to the latter... end war, the Americans rescued numerous ships that by all accounts should have sunk, to the point that ships ended up with nicknames like the Grey Ghost (Enterprise VII) and the Blue Ghost (Lexington V). Therefore, her HP would naturally be an order of magnitude higher than the Yamato's
Armor
Her Armor was only 20% thinner than the Yamato's, despite being a Fast Battleship. In fact, her belt armor was more effective than the Yamato's, surprisingly. Not to mention that it was resistant to AP rounds due to a dummy belt layer that stripped off the AP cap before it hit the actual belt armor (the only other non-American battleship to incorporate this would be the Richelieu), when it worked (and it did most of the time) the Iowa would survive a direct hit from the Yamato's 46cm Main cannons in the belt at 20,000yds, which is downright amazing (the other two rounds that would be following it would not have this problem however). This translates into an Armor rating just about 9-10 points under the Yamato. 100 armor rating on a base form fast battleship, yo! It would also grant a resistance to AP Shells, should the Abysmal Fleet ever start using that.
Evasion
The Iowa could make an 180 degree turn in 27 seconds with only about 600ft of over-travel (3/4ths of her length, more efficient then many Destroyers [the late-war Sumner and Gearing class were better, at only 1/2 length over-travel]) should the situation require it... and keep doing it, continuously, for as long as the driving crew could refrain from puking. Did I mention that they would never lose 'lock' on their target while doing all of this? Yep. They could maintain full attack while pulling evasive maneuvers... something that no Japanese or other Axis battleship was capable of doing. Her Evasion would be comparable to a destroyer's of the same form level (no, not Shimakaze, more like Inazuma) up until her Kai Ni form, at which it would stagnate (and drop off to Battleship Kai levels in her fourth and final form, due to degradation of her engines and steering system)
Line of Site
Ridiculously overpowered. Spotting Planes? Don't need them at all! The fire control radar on the Iowa was capable of picking up a battleship sized target at 40,000 yards with an error margin of 15yd/3 mils (0.16 of a degree), and that was the short range (but highly accurate) one. (For comparison, the very best Japanese radar could only detect a Battleship sized target at 20,000 yards [at a range where the conning tower would be peeking over the horizon anyway] with an error margin of 220yd/3 degrees). Air search was that much better, being able to detect a single fighter plane at 70nmi or a single low flying bomber at 105,000yds. No joke. The advantage of having late-war radar was game breaking in many ways. (If you are wondering why that they could be blind sided by aircraft if they could see them so far away, the answer is simple: active radar reveals your presence. Although Passive Radar Arrays hadn't become powerful enough to become viable yet, it was still taken into consideration. However, when on an attack mission [like all sorties in the game] she just went all out and threw radar waves everywhere.) Not to mention that she was only 'vulnerable' to T-cross for 60-degrees as her turrets could traverse a full 150 degrees in either direction. However, this is actually a little misleading if you brush over it too quickly, so here it is again spelled out: She could fire her aft turret Forward of her amid ships and, given her turning speed, 'Turn the V' (that is the term for breaking T-cross) bringing all her guns to bear in as little as 15 seconds (all the ships she sailed with would follow suit and in just a bit you'd have a Shootin' Match on your hands). Given her radar, she may well actually get the first shot off as well, to add injury to insult. Her LOS would be favorably high, and her presence would prevent T-cross. However, using planes for this is cheaper and more effective.
Speed
Fast. She was the lead ship of the Fastest Capital Ship class ever built to this day.
Range
Very Long, same as the Yamato. Realistically speaking, in a shooting match with the Yamato, she'd fire first at her own maximum (radar) range and could expect a good chunk of her rounds to hit (in comparison to the Yamato). It's a fact that the US Navy knew to keep their Battleships back from the Japanese battle fleet and just 'rake the field' (that is to say 'fire as many rounds downrange as humanly possible and pray you hit something' backed by one of the most accurate radar systems ever built for those ranges [yep, still ranks right up there]) by the time that the Iowa came into play, this was determined in the battle of Washington vs Kirishima. Late war, they include a mix of Mk13/14 HC VT amongst the AP shells just to shake the everybody up a bit over there (which had a devastating effect on moral and manpower effectiveness) and potentially kill any deck crew (or just outright sink the ship, in the case of most ships lighter armored than a battlecruiser).
Luck
Naturally depends on the individual ship. Just because Luck is such an 'interesting' stat (the one that you can play with and no one will say anything), I've listed them for all four Iowa-class ships. Iowa would be average, about 15 (she was pretty downright unlucky, actually, but she did survive the end-of-an-era axe for 40 years and is still fighting to get back in service [from some things I've read, she may win in a few years]). New Jersey would have pretty good luck, it fits her personification as the gambler of the four (about 30). Missouri would be extremely lucky (in the 40s), given the roles she has played and how some things just seemed to bend around her, and the reputation that she obtained as 'touched by God' (as the 'Angel of Death', her other nickname). Wisconsin would be 'average' (15), given that her luck in life was a mixed bag of nuts, but at higher forms goes up to 'good' (Mid 20s). You wouldn't know this by reading wikipedia, but at one point (during the Gulf War) she was called 'God's Battleship' due to having been blessed by the pope himself, after that everything just started coming smooth for the girl. Awkward, to say the least. With the noted exception of Wisconsin, their lucks never get much better or worse though, so it's pretty much stuck.
To summarize, the four of them in their base form would have...
Summary
> Less Firepower than the Yamato-class, but more than the Nagato-class > Redundantly powerful AA > More HP than the Yamato, by an order of magnitude. > Armor between the Yamato-class and Nagato-class > Evasion levels that make them as hard to hit as Destroyers. > LOS high enough that they could spy on Tone or Chikuma while they're bathing and get away with it because it appeared that they were looking in the entirely opposite direction. (Though it'd be against established personality of Iowa, Missouri, and Wisconsin to do that... New Jersey actually might) > Fast speed, like any other Fast Battleship. > Very Long range. > Luck that varies from Average (15) to Superb (~40). > Main Cannons that can fire at Aircraft and have huge Accuracy bonuses (with Damage bonuses between the 46cm and 41cm guns already in the game) > Special effect: 'Prevents T-cross Disadvantage' > Special effect: 'Attacks twice per Shelling Phase' > Special effect: 'Reduces incoming AP effect by half'
And none of this would be enveloping on what they actually did in their war career, unlike the Kancolle Girls.
Seriously, overpowered. However, without leaving realism, their resource costs would be about three times as much at the Yamato's... because that's exactly what it was in real life. The benefits of possessing the largest economy and industrial base in the world were used to no little extent by the US Navy.
Still, even with a 1000 ammo and fuel cost, seriously overpowered. (Aside, who in their right mind would use a ship with that high of a cost???)
HOWEVER!
RNGCombo said:
Wouldn't there be quite a few issues with her Kai Ni? Introducing missiles would open a serious can of worms in flavor and balancing.
Actually, they'd be not much more then player controlled Re-class Battleships. Think about it. Attacks during the Air Combat Stage: Tomahawk Attacks during the Opening Torpedo Stage: Harpoon Shelling Phase: Guns / Harpoon Shelling Phase: Guns
(I haven't quite figured out where her 5th attack comes from [the English wiki didn't have information on it when I last checked, and I don't play the game]), so I took a wild guess and threw the Harpoon in the Shelling Phase like the torpedo it acts like)
The Bismarck was considered as the pride of the Kriegsmarine, she was equipped with eight 15 inch naval gun making her as one of the most powerful warship of the early years of WW2. On her first naval operation, she successfully sunk the Royal Navy heavy cruiser Hood (A powerful battle cruiser), and forced the Battleship Prince of Wales (another powerful battleship from the early years of war which sunk by the IJN) to retreat.
Though Bismarck successfully sunk the pride of the Royal Navy, she suffered several hits and made her abort the operation. But knowing that the Bismarck might had suffered heavy blows, the Royal Navy pursuit the damaged battleship which lasted for two days.
She was hunted by 3 battleships, 3 cruisers, 6 destroyers, and an aircraft carrier. The Royal Navy warships ganged Bismarck, but despite of the damage she had already sustained, Bismarck manage to return fire lightly damaged 1 cruiser, after receiving a tremendous amount of damage from the rest of the Royal Navy which totally incapacitate her for battle, she was scuttled by a U-boat on May 27, 1941.
Bismarck's final battle was the most well-known battleship-against-battleship action of WW2. And this proves that she was surely powerful since it takes almost a whole fleet to fully incapacitate her.
Also it's quite disappointing that Bismarck and Tirpitz never had to sailed side by side unlike Yamato and Musashi.
[I'll also add this]
The naval battles in European Theatre was important for the Allies since if they hadn't achieve victories, they couldn't had lunched the largest amphibious invasion in history, though it wasn't that grand compare to the Pacific Theatre, but still its an important victory.
As much as I like the Iowa-class and want to see them implemented in the game (so long as the receive the amount of respect that they deserve), there are a couple of problems with putting them in. They're overpowered. Seriously overpowered. And I'm not speaking of the modernizations, I'm talking about the Iowa-class in WW2.
Consider this assessment of Iowa's would-be stats (Kancolle wise) compared to... well, every other battleship in the game.
Long Assessment
Firepower
At preferred engagement range of the Iowa of 35,000yds (and being the Fastest class of Capital Ship ever built, she'd control the range) she has an effective fire rate (as in, the rate that she actually sent shells out during combat) almost twice as high as the Yamato, and at that range any shell that hit would go through the Yamato's deck armor like a hot knife through butter (admittedly, the Yamato could return the favor at any range... if she could hit). Not to mention the superiority of her ballistics and Shell Quality. Her 16' Mk8 Super Heavy AP shell was almost as effective as the Yamato's 46cm at piercing armor, even if it did sacrifice DAP (Damage after Penetration) as a result (still would mess things up inside quite a bit). Let's not get started about accuracy, the Iowa is more accurate than any other unguided Artillery piece in the world, the Yamato not so much. This translates into a Firepower stat that is higher than the Nagato but slightly lower than the Yamato... and the ability to fire twice per shelling phase. - I could likely write an entire article on the effective Firepower of the Yamato vs the Iowa and why the Iowa would more oft than not beat the living daylights out of the Yamato, but I'll refrain.
Anti-Air
Her AA Armament (including her secondary 5in cannons) was outright overpowered, throwing 4 times as much AA lead downrange as the Musashi ever could and almost twice what the Yamato could throw in her last stand. In fact, her class had the highest AA throw weight of any single ship class in the war. Now add to this that much of the Iowa's AA Armament was Radar-controlled (including the 40mm Bofors) and had the ridiculously overpowered VT fused rounds to fall back on. On top of all of this, let's make the AA situation even worse. She could fire on Aircraft with her 16in guns using the Mark 13/14 HC Anti-Air shell... which also came with a VT fuse... This translates into an AA stat of about 150... and this is in her base form, it gets worse at Kai. (Shudder at Kai Ni people, shudder.)
Endurance/HP
Structurally, she was about 110% stronger than Yamato due to the extensive use of STS (basically RHA) in place of Mild Steel... as in, there was only a few thousand pounds of mild steel used in her construction. Also coming into consideration is her counter-flooding and damage control teams... I don't think I have to explain the difference between Japanese and American capabilities on these during WW2. Let's just say, that on the former, the American set up was a little better in effect and purely amazing considering that they did it in a lot less space; as to the latter... end war, the Americans rescued numerous ships that by all accounts should have sunk, to the point that ships ended up with nicknames like the Grey Ghost (Enterprise VII) and the Blue Ghost (Lexington V). Therefore, her HP would naturally be an order of magnitude higher than the Yamato's
Armor
Her Armor was only 20% thinner than the Yamato's, despite being a Fast Battleship. In fact, her belt armor was more effective than the Yamato's, surprisingly. Not to mention that it was resistant to AP rounds due to a dummy belt layer that stripped off the AP cap before it hit the actual belt armor (the only other non-American battleship to incorporate this would be the Richelieu), when it worked (and it did most of the time) the Iowa would survive a direct hit from the Yamato's 46cm Main cannons in the belt at 20,000yds, which is downright amazing (the other two rounds that would be following it would not have this problem however). This translates into an Armor rating just about 9-10 points under the Yamato. 100 armor rating on a base form fast battleship, yo! It would also grant a resistance to AP Shells, should the Abysmal Fleet ever start using that.
Evasion
The Iowa could make an 180 degree turn in 27 seconds with only about 600ft of over-travel (3/4ths of her length, more efficient then many Destroyers [the late-war Sumner and Gearing class were better, at only 1/2 length over-travel]) should the situation require it... and keep doing it, continuously, for as long as the driving crew could refrain from puking. Did I mention that they would never lose 'lock' on their target while doing all of this? Yep. They could maintain full attack while pulling evasive maneuvers... something that no Japanese or other Axis battleship was capable of doing. Her Evasion would be comparable to a destroyer's of the same form level (no, not Shimakaze, more like Inazuma) up until her Kai Ni form, at which it would stagnate (and drop off to Battleship Kai levels in her fourth and final form, due to degradation of her engines and steering system)
Line of Site
Ridiculously overpowered. Spotting Planes? Don't need them at all! The fire control radar on the Iowa was capable of picking up a battleship sized target at 40,000 yards with an error margin of 15yd/3 mils (0.16 of a degree), and that was the short range (but highly accurate) one. (For comparison, the very best Japanese radar could only detect a Battleship sized target at 20,000 yards [at a range where the conning tower would be peeking over the horizon anyway] with an error margin of 220yd/3 degrees). Air search was that much better, being able to detect a single fighter plane at 70nmi or a single low flying bomber at 105,000yds. No joke. The advantage of having late-war radar was game breaking in many ways. (If you are wondering why that they could be blind sided by aircraft if they could see them so far away, the answer is simple: active radar reveals your presence. Although Passive Radar Arrays hadn't become powerful enough to become viable yet, it was still taken into consideration. However, when on an attack mission [like all sorties in the game] she just went all out and threw radar waves everywhere.) Not to mention that she was only 'vulnerable' to T-cross for 60-degrees as her turrets could traverse a full 150 degrees in either direction. However, this is actually a little misleading if you brush over it too quickly, so here it is again spelled out: She could fire her aft turret Forward of her amid ships and, given her turning speed, 'Turn the V' (that is the term for breaking T-cross) bringing all her guns to bear in as little as 15 seconds (all the ships she sailed with would follow suit and in just a bit you'd have a Shootin' Match on your hands). Given her radar, she may well actually get the first shot off as well, to add injury to insult. Her LOS would be favorably high, and her presence would prevent T-cross. However, using planes for this is cheaper and more effective.
Speed
Fast. She was the lead ship of the Fastest Capital Ship class ever built to this day.
Range
Very Long, same as the Yamato. Realistically speaking, in a shooting match with the Yamato, she'd fire first at her own maximum (radar) range and could expect a good chunk of her rounds to hit (in comparison to the Yamato). It's a fact that the US Navy knew to keep their Battleships back from the Japanese battle fleet and just 'rake the field' (that is to say 'fire as many rounds downrange as humanly possible and pray you hit something' backed by one of the most accurate radar systems ever built for those ranges [yep, still ranks right up there]) by the time that the Iowa came into play, this was determined in the battle of Washington vs Kirishima. Late war, they include a mix of Mk13/14 HC VT amongst the AP shells just to shake the everybody up a bit over there (which had a devastating effect on moral and manpower effectiveness) and potentially kill any deck crew (or just outright sink the ship, in the case of most ships lighter armored than a battlecruiser).
Luck
Naturally depends on the individual ship. Just because Luck is such an 'interesting' stat (the one that you can play with and no one will say anything), I've listed them for all four Iowa-class ships. Iowa would be average, about 15 (she was pretty downright unlucky, actually, but she did survive the end-of-an-era axe for 40 years and is still fighting to get back in service [from some things I've read, she may win in a few years]). New Jersey would have pretty good luck, it fits her personification as the gambler of the four (about 30). Missouri would be extremely lucky (in the 40s), given the roles she has played and how some things just seemed to bend around her, and the reputation that she obtained as 'touched by God' (as the 'Angel of Death', her other nickname). Wisconsin would be 'average' (15), given that her luck in life was a mixed bag of nuts, but at higher forms goes up to 'good' (Mid 20s). You wouldn't know this by reading wikipedia, but at one point (during the Gulf War) she was called 'God's Battleship' due to having been blessed by the pope himself, after that everything just started coming smooth for the girl. Awkward, to say the least. With the noted exception of Wisconsin, their lucks never get much better or worse though, so it's pretty much stuck.
To summarize, the four of them in their base form would have...
Summary
> Less Firepower than the Yamato-class, but more than the Nagato-class > Redundantly powerful AA > More HP than the Yamato, by an order of magnitude. > Armor between the Yamato-class and Nagato-class > Evasion levels that make them as hard to hit as Destroyers. > LOS high enough that they could spy on Tone or Chikuma while they're bathing and get away with it because it appeared that they were looking in the entirely opposite direction. (Though it'd be against established personality of Iowa, Missouri, and Wisconsin to do that... New Jersey actually might) > Fast speed, like any other Fast Battleship. > Very Long range. > Luck that varies from Average (15) to Superb (~40). > Main Cannons that can fire at Aircraft and have huge Accuracy bonuses (with Damage bonuses between the 46cm and 41cm guns already in the game) > Special effect: 'Prevents T-cross Disadvantage' > Special effect: 'Attacks twice per Shelling Phase' > Special effect: 'Reduces incoming AP effect by half'
And none of this would be enveloping on what they actually did in their war career, unlike the Kancolle Girls.
Seriously, overpowered. However, without leaving realism, their resource costs would be about three times as much at the Yamato's... because that's exactly what it was in real life. The benefits of possessing the largest economy and industrial base in the world were used to no little extent by the US Navy.
Still, even with a 1000 ammo and fuel cost, seriously overpowered. (Aside, who in their right mind would use a ship with that high of a cost???)
HOWEVER!
Actually, they'd be not much more then player controlled Re-class Battleships. Think about it. Attacks during the Air Combat Stage: Tomahawk Attacks during the Opening Torpedo Stage: Harpoon Shelling Phase: Guns / Harpoon Shelling Phase: Guns
(I haven't quite figured out where her 5th attack comes from [the English wiki didn't have information on it when I last checked, and I don't play the game]), so I took a wild guess and threw the Harpoon in the Shelling Phase like the torpedo it acts like)
So, not really.
What would be their personalities, out of curiosity?
Makes me wonder how ridiculous the Montana-class would have been.
However, without leaving realism, their resource costs would be about three times as much at the Yamato's... because that's exactly what it was in real life. The benefits of possessing the largest economy and industrial base in the world were used to no little extent by the US Navy.
Still, even with a 1000 ammo and fuel cost, seriously overpowered. (Aside, who in their right mind would use a ship with that high of a cost???)
Gamers got a term for that. Pay to Win
Depending on how the company can manage and handle the risk of bad reps from it, they'll be happy to see rich players throwing real money to fund their virtual war efforts :D
What would be their personalities, out of curiosity?
Makes me wonder how ridiculous the Montana-class would have been.
Personalities of the Iowa sisters
Iowa
Iowa was referred to as either 'the Princess' or 'the Mistress' by sailors, both as a term of endearment and hate. Most of the sailors that I spoke to envisioned her as what amounted to a cross between a Dominatrix and a Slave Driver, but also a Queen or Princess. A harsh mistress that demanded a whole lot, was finicky, capricious, and would drive you hard enough to put you three inches from death; however, when the going got rough she would absolutely never let you down and would go looking to kill someone should they even say anything bad about you. After all, she wasn't their ship, they were her sailors. This came from the fact that she was actually the most finicky of the 4 Iowas and had to be handled just so or she'd cause a fuss and fail to perform. Such as her speed trials. You had to take her to full power to get her to move right and she demanded high quality oil (hated the cheap stuff and ran bad with it). However, she had the highest accuracy out of the four and the highest potential damage factor (DARPA used her to test things, keep in mind, so she had prototype equipment laying about in her 1980s deployments).
On a Kancolle note, she'd also be part of the Explosion sisters with Taihou and Mutsu. [Grim-dark Humor] At least she survived (though the damage has never been repaired).
New Jersey
New Jersey was basically 'one of the boys'. A Rowdy boisterous bruiser of a Sailor who was prone to aggression, and the type of woman to pick up men at a bar. But she was always someone that you could trust to have your back. She was the one that everyone wanted to serve with, not on. Probably due to how Halsey tended to mingle with the enlisted sailors instead of with the officers. She was also the most military minded of the four, and most of her men tended to view her as an Admiral (but the type that you wanted to be under). This is due to her WW2 status as the Flagship of 3rd/5th fleet and Halsey's personality (despite that Spruance also used her as his flagship), and that she's the most decorated battleship in history. After First Blood (Rambo) came out, I've heard that a lot of sailors started envisioning her dressed like that. Y' know, what with her being in 'Nam and everything. However, she was also the most protective of the four and tended to try and do everything, and therefore overreached. Probably because... well, "the world wonders"=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_world_wonders. Needless to say, most sailors would agree that she has PTSD.
Missouri
Missouri was the most philosophical and intellectual of the four, and sailors envisioned her as the type that would spend quiet evenings reading poetry. But she was also envisioned in other lights. According to one sailor I spoke to, she was "sweet as soda pop, wild as a tom cat, 'been there, done that', right as an Angel, left as a Demoness, and bright as the stars in the eastern night sky" (...If you could understand any of that, I congratulate you.) However, as strange as that description was (which is why I had to share it), I actually got a much more... descriptive description from one sailor, and all of his buddies standing round agreed right out. "A Raven-haired Enchantress in Gothic Regalia, standing about 6'11", weighing about 200lb; who holds herself like a queen but is kind and gentle like a Sister (Nun) on a Sunday, however if you dare harm her family or friends, she quickly... well, as they say, the Angel of Death descends swiftly." ...Yes, he said 6 Foot 11 inches. That's why I can't help but see the Battleship Kancolle girls as towering over the Admirals. One of his buddies added that "Also, if she caught you even looking at another woman, she'd cut off your ****" and promptly got punched by one of the others.
Wisconsin
Wisconsin... well, Wisconsin is a bit of an interesting case. Apparently, she's a Party Hearty teenager, a Nun, a Secretary, a Trigger-Happy Gunslinger, a Dreamer, and a depressed cynic all rolled into one body that secretly belongs to Super-Girl... Yeah. If you can actually figure out her personality from that, I'll be impressed. Basically, she was an Energetic Gal who loved to party that extolled Virtue and Honor, but whose response to everything was to pump it full of High Explosive steel. She shot high, but secretly didn't believe that anything that she did would amount to much, thought very little of herself, and was always trying to play catch-up with the Missouri, whom she had a severe case of sister worship for (the Missouri also apparently considered her as 'the only one she could count on'). However, her self doubt was all in her head. Other ships thought she was doing fine (I heard from other ships in her battlegroup's more... attuned' sailors that their ships were throwing fits when the Wisconsin was decommissioned the last time. I've also heard that some ships apparently idolize the Wisky and want to be like her... even though they're missile boats...) You can find some weird people in the US Navy.
The Montana? Add another turret, ~2 miles of range to her Secondaries (this improved AA power), about 100 more 40mm Bofors (all radar controlled), Armor that would equal the Yamato's in thickness equivalency (actually would be more effective due to higher quality steel), and either remove 3kn or add 3kn to the top speed. Also, the Montana could have been up to 300 feet longer than the Iowa (this to increase speed). Plans were all over the place; and, despite what Wikipedia claims, they never really decided on exactly one. Thus the 'Super Montana' rumors you may sometimes hear flying about, that's the "Battleship - Plan 1937 - Design C - Variant 8" that I've mention here and there on here. That thing would have weighed 92,000 l.tons, outweighing the Yamato by 18,000 tons, and still kept the speed of the Iowas! (If you're curious, Congress had authorized the navy to build that one should any of the Essexs or Iowas been sunk. If they'd have been able to actually do it however, given the steel shortage, is another matter entirely.)
I bought a book about the search for the Bismarck when I was a kid. Honestly, it did not go down in a blaze of glory in a stand up fight. It's rudder was damaged by a group of bi-planes, and it took a shell that effectively cut it's fuel supply in half. And then her fire control tower got wrecked, effectively blinding her (fuck it, she's a girl).
She spent her last hours in the dead of night, unable to run, firing her guns wildly before running out of ammunition.
On the upside, she actually has a fairly dignified resting place. She's upright and in one piece when many warships break apart or end up upside down or on their sides. Not much more can be asked for as far as a grave goes.
On another note, I've read that the Bismarck was not actually a very good design. The Germans used to be excellent ship builders, with high standards of enrollment. Losing WWI and abiding by the treaty practically abolished what used to be a very good school. On the lead up to WWII, what they had for naval design was practically hashed together.
Honestly, it did not go down in a blaze of glory in a stand up fight...
I'll just make something clear.
I never stated that she sunk fighting. What I'm trying to say is that it took almost a fleet to pursuit her and when they found her, she becomes an easy target and fully incapacitate her which eventually leaded her to be scuttled by a U-boat. She already took heavy blows from her previous battle against Hood and Wales so she was actually running away from the Royal Navy during that time which is kinda sad since she didn't make it unlike Prinz Eugen.
What would be their personalities, out of curiosity?
If I'll make a doujinshi out of it (which I could but I don't have the time and the equipments to do so), these personalities I would gave to them.
Iowa - An arrogant, demanding, spoiled, and somewhat sadistic Ojou-sama type woman that will stomp you in the head, punch you in the face, hit you with a bat, twist you like a knot, and kick you in the nuts. She will always tell how pathetic person you are in every single moment you two meet, so expect heavy bombardment of verbal abuse from her (which could even rivaled Akebono and Kasumi). But when you've finally raised her flag, she somehow becomes timid and usually avoids you. She's quite a clean freak and had a burning hatred against perverts, she always warns you during docking time, if she finds you peeping, she'll tear you in half, and if she finds you harassing other ship girls, especially her sisters, she'll rip your balls off. If she had nothing particular thing to do, she spends her time bullying you for her own amusement. During battles, she's the most skillful and graceful fighter among the four, sometimes she shows her sadistic side and becomes too brutal to her enemies but she doesn't lose her grace.
Style: long twintails. Kancolle Equivalent: A mix of Akebono, Kasumi, Tatsuta, and Kitakami. Introduction: "I'm the namesake of the Iowa class battleship, Iowa-sama... are you sure you'll be my admiral? Anyway let us see if you are worthy enough to fight by my side."
New Jersey - A tomboyish, bruiser, hot-blooded type girl just like Tenryuu. She'll always boast how awesome she is, she's very confident, and always ready for competitions. She'll get mad if you pulled her out of battle. Despite of her hot-blooded nature, she deeply cares for her allies (Historical Note: She even sailed flank speed after the fighting from her front just to rescue the Taffy 3). If she has nothing particular thing to do, you could see her playing with the destroyers (like Tenryuu). Though she tends to overly react when embarrassed and she's very easy to tease, a good tease target. Also has a tsundere personality. During battles, a front-liner who likes to go head-to-head against her enemies, always the first to charge, she dislike handicap matches, always looking for a perfect opponent, she also make sure that her enemies are competent to fight her.
Style: short neck-length hair with a fang. Kancolle Equivalent: A mix of Tenryuu, Maya, and Kiso (all hot-blooded)... with some of Shimakaze's and Musashi's personality. Introduction: "The second Iowa class Battleship, the awesome New Jersey! Are you blinded by my awesomeness?"
Wisconsin - An emotionless, quiet, cool headed but somewhat timid girl. She usually spends her time alone inside her special place, she likes to read books often. Though she's very quiet, somehow she's the most clingy among the four, she admires her elder sisters, she cares for Missouri, and she cannot live without seeing you every single day. If she has nothing particular thing to do, she watches you from afar behind a tree. She speaks in a third-person manner. When embarrassed, she becomes clumsy and doesn't know how to control herself, so be aware of sudden impact when you tease her. Pretty much, a dandere type girl. During battles, She's an action-speak-louder-than-words type, a silent but deadly fighter, she tries to defeat her enemies and protect her allies at the same time.
Style: very long wavy hair with glasses. Kancolle Equivalent: A mix of Hibiki, Haruna, and Inazuma, Shiranui when fighting. Introduction: "Iowa-class Battleship USS Wisconsin BB-64... um, Wisconsin looks forward for your guidance."
Missouri - A cheerful, adorable, lovable, Idol type girl (since she's the most well-known among the four). The most admirable among them. She's very caring, she's sweet and always there for you (like Ikazuchi), she will scold you if you overworked yourself, and also she'll make sure that you don't skip mealtime, she's a perfect secretary ship or perhaps a perfect wife. If she has nothing particular thing to do, she spends her time, singing and dancing. Also occasionally she'll tease you for her amusement. She will also remind you to show respect towards the other ship girls. But opposite of Iowa, if you ever raised her flag, she'll become yandere and you wouldn't like it if that happens. She also has a cute verbal tick "misu~?". During battles, she's a trickster, she teases her enemies and uses psychological warfare, she's a perfect strategist so always listen to her suggestions.
Style: long ponytail. Kancolle Equivalent: A mix of Akatsuki, Ikazuchi, Kongou, Kuma, and Naka. Introduction: "Good Day misu~!! American Battleship Missouri reporting for duty misu! I'll be working with you for now on, lets do our best together misu~!
Are you psychic? That's almost entirely the description for the Iowa that was drawing... like, when I typed my earlier post. (Except that the Iowa wasn't as refined in battle as Mo, but that's aside the point.)
On another note, I've read that the Bismarck was not actually a very good design. The Germans used to be excellent ship builders, with high standards of enrollment. Losing WWI and abiding by the treaty practically abolished what used to be a very good school. On the lead up to WWII, what they had for naval design was practically hashed together.
Bismarck was definitely a flawed design. It could (and did) take a lot of punishment before going down, but it couldn't keep fighting for very long while doing so. Its main turrets had thinner armor than any other 1930s or later battleship design. The communication lines from the turrets to the gun directors were, in a shockingly bad decision, laid above the armored deck. The armor as a whole was designed for fighting at relatively short range, WWI-style, and was comparatively deficient against plunging fire from long range. And the fatal flaw turned out to be the propeller arrangement. Had Bismarck been given four shafts (as in most battleships) rather than three, there's a good chance they could've steered the ship with propellers alone when the rudders were jammed, at least well enough to reach port. Not to mention that having a propeller shaft along the centerline means literally having a hole through the keel, which is the last thing you want to structurally weaken.
Seriously, overpowered. However, without leaving realism, their resource costs would be about three times as much at the Yamato's... because that's exactly what it was in real life. The benefits of possessing the largest economy and industrial base in the world were used to no little extent by the US Navy.
Still, even with a 1000 ammo and fuel cost, seriously overpowered. (Aside, who in their right mind would use a ship with that high of a cost???)
The idea the Iowa's are more expense then a Yamato is complete bullcrap, and three times is laughably stupid.
Iowa's did not cost 3 times that of the Yamato, not least because the concept of cost is not applicable to a fully mobilized wartime economy. Only the consumption of resources and manufacturing time matter, this is why "costs" in that time period are talked about in man hours and strategic materials, not currency. In terms of both tonnage of materials used, yard space, and labor consumed the Iowa's were less expensive then the Yamato. They were also cheaper in operation then the Yamato which while reasonably reliable mechanically proved massive fuel hogs and used non-standard shells and guns where as Iowa was merrily using the same shells as every other battleship built since the mid 30s and, had the Montana's been built, would have shared guns and shells with them too.
Iowa was in fact a well designed ship that fit in into the fleet as a whole and was not particularly more expensive to operate then earlier battleships. Yamato and her sister where one off monsters, that fit poorly into the overall structure of the fleet and needed constant special attention and facilitates. The US ships were not more expensive to operate, in fact they were less so since it's widely agreed by all the US had the best mechanical systems and most advanced engineering systems on the planet by a fair margin during the war. That's the sad part really not only was the US burying the enemy under superior numbers, but every single unit they were doing it with was better built and more efficient without costing more. Such was the hilarious mismatch and glorified national suicide that was the pacific war.
Trying to spin the fact the US was the most advanced economy on earth and could easily afford to build and maintain better ships then other nations because of it into some kind of disadvantage is utterly laughable.
Seriously, who ever said anything about monetary value? I happen to know for a fact what the Iowa would cost to build, in today's money; $2.5 billion is her listed replacement cost (I checked, all the parts are still manufacturable, even the HTS). I also happen to have a very good guess on what the Yamato would cost, in today's money, (~$3.2 billion, if the facilities existed to make the equipment, which they don't... I checked). But nobody was talking about money!
I was talking about resources, as in the resources in the game! As in, using the game's economy as the primary factor, while simultaneously looking at this as if it were real.
The game uses the Resources of: [AMMO] , [FUEL] , [STEEL] , and [ALUMINUM] (represented in-game as Bauxite).
I specifically said AMMO and FUEL costs.
Now, let's break this down a bit.
Fuel Costs:
No one is disagreeing with you that the Yamato-class were fuel hogs, no, I'm saying that the Iowa-class were also fuel hogs. However, what I'm also saying is due to the fact that the US wasn't being embargoed by the nation that supplied 90% of their oil, as was Japan, they could afford to send them out willy-nilly.
Yes. Everybody knows that the Iowa was more fuel efficient than the Yamato, but that doesn't mean she actually used less fuel. You seem to be confusing 'having the best mechanical systems' with 'using the least amount of fuel'. This is not the case. It means that the systems are more reliable, and has nothing to do with fuel. You also seem to be assuming that 'fuel economy' means 'using the least amount of fuel possible'. This is also not the case. Fuel Economy for a warship is the Consumption of Fuel relative to the Power Provided. You could use a lot less fuel by cutting the number of boilers, or using less powerful but sufficient boilers.
Let me point something out that you seem to be missing.
The Yamato had 12 kampon boilers driving 4 steam turbines delivering 153,553shp. According to paperwork from the 1945 US Technical Mission to Japan, at full speed 27 knots she burned 62.7 Metric Tons of Fuel Oil per Hour, or 61.7 L.Tons/hr. This was with all 12 boilers firing.
The Iowa had 8 water-tube boilers driving 4 steam turbines, delivering 212,000shp without breaking the red. According to FTP 218, at 30 knots (not full speed) she burned 63.8 Metric Tons of Fuel Oil per Hour, or 62.8 L.Tons/hr. More than the Yamato. Note that this was with all 8 boilers firing at only 81% capacity. It got worse. Above 30 knots, her efficiency dropped like a MOAB; like any non-planing, non-wave-piercing ship. In order to make 35kn, she was burning over 100 tons of fuel an hour, according to some estimates. That's why the Iowa cruised at 15 to 17 knots and saved the high speed for emergencies. The game designers seem to be using the ship's fuel economy at absolute top speed (not scientific term) for the ships to calculate their in-game fuel costs. 'Top speed' for the Iowa is 36kn, at which point she is actually trying (but failing) to climb her own bow wave.
That being said, it gets worse. Iowa's above figures were with our 'superior' oil. Big J, Mo, and Whisky would not run very well with the slick that the IJN provided to their ships, and Iowa herself may well just outright refuse to start up at all (her boilers are for some unknown reason the most finicky of the four).
By 'three times' the Oil Cost, I was meaning when using WW2 Japanese oil; which, all thing considered, is most likely what the game is figuring too.
It gets worse if you try to ship high grade oil in for the Iowa-class, considering that you're now figuring the cost of 2-way trips to Yokosuka from Pearl Harbor for the supply ships and heavily armed escorts for those supply ships (likely also Battleships, considering the world of the Game), directly through highly guarded enemy waters. Yamato, operating in her own home waters, did not have this problem.
Ammo Costs:
This one is quite simple. Iowa-class Battleships, and for that matter South_Dakota-class Battleships, cost 3 times the Ammo in game as the Yamato because they shoot 3 times the ammo that the Yamato does in roughly the same amount of time.
American Strategy with their BBs was to simply acquire a target using radar, and then order every gun to drop three rounds on that spot without taking time to watch the shots drop, and repeat this in two minute thirty second cycles. It's called 'Raking the Field', or 'Suppressing Fire that's actually meant to kill something', and we were very good at it. We could afford it. We had the production power to keep up with out output and we had the buying power to obtain the materials. The Yamato had no such luxury. Not only did she not have the production/buying power of the US behind her, she didn't have the radar capabilities either, meaning that she had to watch each and every shot drop to have any idea where she was putting her rounds. Even with Scouting Planes, this process could take many precious minutes (about 10) to complete. On the other side, between her radar and fire control computers, the Iowa was 'on target' with one broadside, or 26 seconds (plus the elevation variable), and cranking out shells as fast as the gun crew could load them, only pausing after every gun fired 3 shells to reacquire her target (this took roughly 30 extra seconds, just enough time for the gun crew to breathe, thus roughly 2min 30 sec cycles).
Honestly, if you don't understand the concept that America was more than willing to expend countless rounds of ammo on a single target, you're not very familiar with our modern 'Machine-Gun' Tactics (technically 'Suppressing Fire') where, by some estimates, we're blowing ~3000 rounds trying to kill one insurgent.
Also, for another thing, who said that the US was the most advanced economy on the earth (when speaking of back then)? Back then, England and Germany were both on about the same technological level as we were; we just had a size advantage.
For yet another thing, you need to get your eyes checked. I never said that possessing such an economy was a disadvantage. I said it was an advantage. However, now that you bring it up, it is a disadvantage to another country (say, in this case, Japan) if that other country is trying to use equipment meant for the much larger economy. Take the M1 Abrams as an example. That thing uses 20 Gallons of Fuel per Mile, and that's just the Export Version, ours is worse considering that a good chunk of our guys rip the governor out and the brass turn blind eyes towards it. How many other economies can handle that? Last count... 6, I think?
The case with the Iowa is similar. High Quality Fuel Oil was not cheap back then.
Seriously, the mooing here is coming from your mouth.
Iâm just going to bullet point this and hit the high notes
-Claiming you mean something else rarely works when the quote without any other interpretation but what you actually meant is in plain view on the same page doesnât tend to work.
"However, without leaving realism, their resource costs would be about three times as much at the Yamato's... because that's exactly what it was in real life." (Emphasis mine)
If you're going to try and lie to me at least do it in a manner that doesn't assumes I'm both blind and stupid. Having seen a number of your posts now though I shouldn't be surprised as I'm seeing that one of your favored tactics when called on having said something patently wrong is to quickly try and shift the goal posts, that and just adding a bunch of useless tangents to try and distract from the point being contested.
You're attempt to make it sound like I was mainly talking about money and toss out a bunch of useless and probably bogus number is cute, but ridiculous since my post specifically mentions resources consumed as the main 'cost' of the ships in terms of both building and operation and your post specifically equates the supposed imbalance in this consumption as having existed in reality in order to justify your absurd purposed costs in game. This is the claim I considered as nonsense as any unbiased reading my post would indicate.
-On that note cutting through the crap your own fuel numbers show Iowa is more efficient then Yamato covering 10% more distance in a given time for only 1.8% more fuel (2.1 to 2.3 tonnes per nmi in Iowaâs favor). Thanks for doing my job for me. All the other stuff is worthless clutter distracting from that central point that youâre â3 times the fuel is realisticâ assertion is complete crap.
-You also seem to be confusing me with someone who apparently knows as little about US machinery as you seemingly do.
US machinery absolutely used the least fuel and it had everything to do with fuel since the push for higher pressure and temperature boilers pre-war was driven primarily by the increased efficiency and thus range it promised. The fact these plants proved highly reliable as well thanks to good engineering is just a âbonusâ. US engineering plant design was universally agreed to be the best in all aspects and about five years ahead of anyone else at the start of the war.
Iowa was no exception and, barring nonsense like your ludicrous attempt try and use her flank speed consumption as a baseline for long term fuel consumption, its blindingly obvious she consumed significantly less fuel at both cruising and at normal combat speeds. Your backhanded suggestion that the aforementioned absurd method, the only one that could even vaguely support your ludicrous argument, âseemsâ to be what Devs use is also very, very convenient in this context. That said even if we take this nonsense at face value you're still wrong. Cause following up your first math fail you then go on to say that at flank speed Iowa might burn up to 100 tons of fuel an hour (I'll assume you actually mean tonnes to maintain equivalence to your earlier numbers). This sounds reasonable to me, but it's also not even a 40% increase over Yamato's own expenditure at flank speed as stated by yourself (62.7 tonnes per hour).
So even here you're three times number makes no sense whatsoever. So in all you've manage to 'prove' is that if Iowa pushes to a speed that's entirely impossible for Yamato to reach she uses more fuel. Wow, no foolin'!? A car going 120 mph uses more gas then a similar one doing 100?! My mind is blown! TLDR you're own 'rebuttal' proves my god damn point that you're 3 times figure makes no F'ing sense. (also bonus points for another nonsensical unsupported claim for one of the Iowa's capabilities, 36 knots my lily white ass)
-Your crap about oil quality is a full on red herring and thus ignored.
-On ammo use, my view is that 'tactics' should just be ignored entirely because theyâre too subject to change due to actual battle conditions and often fail to pan out when the rubber meets he road anyway, in my view ammo consumption should be based solely on nominal firing rate since actual expenditures in battle is too subject to totally unpredictable circumstances. For instance I could counter your claims of excessive ammo use with the fact that due to better fire control the US ships fire more at the outset, but it will get the range and land hits faster shortening the engagement and reducing overall ammo use. In fact the two example we have rather support that view and provide good illustration of how useless generalization like this are.
The first example is during the second battle of Guadalcanal; at about 2353 spotlights illuminated South Dakota and Kirishima opened fire at close range, over the next seven minutes or so she reported firing about 117 main gun rounds. This actually works out as slightly more (bout .5 rpm) then her nominal combined fire rate of 16 rpm from all guns. This is small enough we can probably just assume that in the face of a real enemy battleship at close range the gun crews were busting their asses and cutting any corner they could to load as quickly as possible. (Although that said another earlier engagement by Hiei also produces a firing rate that exceeds the most often quoted 2 rpm per gun hinting that the figure might have been rounded down a bit) At about 0000 however Washington targeted Krishima and opened fire herself she engaged for seven minutes, but reports pausing for about 90 seconds when she thought her target destroyed at one point. She thus fired for about five and a half minutes over which time she got out 75 shells for a combined RoF of about 13.5 rpm as compared to her 18 rpm nominal for all guns.
Thus by this indication the US ship fired less, but considerably more accurately although in total weight of shells expended due to heavier rounds the US ship did in fact fire slightly "more" about 203k pounds of shot to 173k for the Japanese ship. Still hardly 3 god damn times.
Another example from this period was that at about the same time USS Massachusetts was engaged in a running battle that involved action against maneuvering surface units, engagement with shore batteries, and a brief exchange with a moored battleship. This engagement probably represent the single greatest sustained firing cycle of any battleship in the entire war in a surface action and resulted in a total of 704 shells expended during the main engagement that spanned about four hours. This results in an averaged rate of about 2.9 shells per minute over the course of the combat.
The only other real incident one could cite regarding anti-ship gunnery for US battleships is Suragio Strait. Three US ships did the huge bulk of the shooting Tennessee, California, and West Virgina. West Virgina fired first and fired regularly pretty much until the cease fire command. In total the engagement lasted about 16 minutes and she expended 93 shells giving an averaged rate of fire of about 5.8 rpm. She has eight guns rated at a nominal RoF of 2 rnd/m so she only fired at only slightly more then a third of her maximum possible rate over that period. Tennessee and California opened fire only two minutes later but expended only 69 and 63 rounds respectively splitting the difference at 66 they fired about 4.7 rpm even though with twelve guns they had a nominal max RoF of about 24 rounds per minutes, not even a fourth their possible max rate. Obviously both figures are significantly less then the rate Washington was expending during her engagement, but notably more then Massachusetts used during her running brawl.
Thus using the only three real examples we have of US battleships engaging in a reasonably pitched surface engagement we have an average rate of ammo use from 2.9 to 13.5 rounds per minute.
Thus it becomes rather clear that ammo usage in combat is probably 90% a factor of the tactical situation in a given engagement and rather divorced from the maximum theoretical mechanical limits of the mounts or any supposed doctrine. This makes any blanket generalization about average ammo use based on supposed 'tactics' clearly nonsense as by all indication what actually happens is that the ship commander on the scene fires what he thinks was needed at the time, logistics permitting, and what was needed could and would vary based on a billion factors that can't really be generalized. In the face of this the best thing to do is fall back on something we can say for certain which is the hard mechanical limits on max RoF for guns. We can use this to assume a worst case where in the engaged the ships just blast away at the maximum possible rate until sunk or victorious, in most cases this probably overstates consumption, but at least it gives us a useful and objective yard stick.
Now obviously this shouldn't just be based on total shell count or you'd get silliness like DD having higher ammo cost then battleships, so throw weight is the obvious factor to use. Since US ships tended to use heavier shells they would in fact perhaps have a slight increase in ammo cost, but this should be balanced against a similar percentage increase in damage verses Japanese weapons of similar caliber. In the specific case of Iowa verses Yamato Iowa throw weight over time at max stated is about 10% more.
10% is not in fact three god damn times.
-Of course all this really stems from your insistence on the Iowa being stupidly powerful because it supposedly was in reality, supposedly. Really though most appraisals rate the shipâs pretty close with pluses and cons both, but favoring Iowa a bit as an overall more balanced and much more efficient design. The fact Iowa got so close on such a lighter displacement is the really impressive thing, but the fact remains in actual combat power it was a close and debatable contest. With that in mind thereâs really no reason it shouldnât just be close to the Yamato in power and largely commiserate in price for balance reason, but with stats distributed somewhat differently:
AA, speed: better LOS, Evasion: somewhat better Health and Armor: worse and somewhat worse respectively Firepower and Range: a wash
This fits with pretty much all objective assessments of the two ships strengths. The idea Iowa is significantly superior is rather untenable, theyâre around equal (which is impressive given the tonnage disparity). Even leaders of the time well respected the ships potential strength and where in no hurry to run off and get into a surface action with it during the later stages of the war when theyâd begun to appreciate its size. During the planning for Yamatoâs execution there was some thought at first of using a surface force, and during that planning the officers involved constantly demonstrated a healthy respect for the Yamato even in the face of a planned intercept by half a dozen modern battleships including three Iowas.
This does not speak of leaders confident of gross overmatch or an easy fight.
-Also on one final note I can't help but muse that despite the sudden shift of goal posts to a purely in game resource perspective you've made zero attempt to mention steel anywhere in this post. I suppose that just means that you simply couldn't find a way to try and twist a ship that uses tens of thousands of tons less of it having a 3 times higher consumption that didn't come off as ludicrous.
Naturally. Germany was the only major power allied with Japan. And in reverse, Japan was the only ally of Germany in Asia. Ideology aside, you tend to like your allies more than your enemies.
If Japan didn't attack Nationalism China. There would be two Asian allies for Germany, because Germany and Nationalism China are under cooporation with each other, many Nationalism China's divisions were trained by German officers and armed with German weapons even they have few hundreds of Panzer I and II. Mauser C96 is iconic weapon for China during patriot war against Japan. But because Japan's behavior and hate against China, they attack both Communist China and Nationalism China. Not only make Germany lost a big ally in Asia but also gain a big enemy, and Japan is stuck in China. If not, massive force of Japan and Nationalism China with make Soviet's Far East armies has trouble enough for can't to reinforce West front. Also will make US has more trouble in Pacific theatre.
Take the M1 Abrams as an example. That thing uses 20 Gallons of Fuel per Mile, and that's just the Export Version, ours is worse considering that a good chunk of our guys rip the governor out and the brass turn blind eyes towards it.
I recently came back to this post and this load of nonsense stood out. In the real world, the M1 Abrams gets approximately 0.6 miles per gallon (392L/100km) at conditions for maximum operational range.* It also has a 505-gallon fuel tank (except the M1A1 SEP at 445.4), which means that at 20 gallons per mile, it'd have a range of ~25 miles (40km), which is somewhere between "less than useful" and "worthless".*
Also, while I'm at it, there is no "the" export version of the Abrams, but five: Egyptian M1A1s, Kuwaiti and Saudi M1A2s, Saudi M1A2Ss, Australian M1A1 AIMs, and Iraqi M1A1Ms.
*Even flat-out cross-country during the First Gulf War, M1s still made 7 gallons/mile, a far cry from 20.